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01.01.2006
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March 17, 2006
A Conquerer's Story & Shades Of Truth
Permanent link ▫ ▫  
I am watching these series now, sort of. I was too busy watching American Idol I kinda forgot about them. But switched on the TV yesterday night and well, I was just gobsmacked at how ... how twisted the story is. A Conequerer's Story I mean. My impression of the legend and historical facts which this series is based on is mostly thanks to the famous opera and the movie version which starred Gong Li and Ray Lui, amongst many others. First of all, to see Adam Cheng so old acting in a character which shouldn't really be that old and running after a much younger Maggie Cheung was rather ... shocking. To see Kong Wah looking so old was also rather ... shocking. But what kinda irks me was how stupid Lau Bong was. A man that stupid can't be one of China's greatest founding father of one of the greatest empire. Maybe he will smarten up later but he's already so old, it will be truly illogical he can suddenly smarten up so fast. I would have preferred a scheming Lau Bong who uses people he knows are good for his career and pretends to be stupid when he is really smart. That was the Lau Bong we see in the movie version, ably assisted by his equally and even smarter wive. Then to see Hon Yu behaving in such a bullish way was rather disturbing. I know Kong Wah will portray him as someone honourable but right now, we know he is honourable but somehow not THAT honourable. I expected this man to be walking talking integrity ish kinda general as opposite to Lau Bong's rather silent type. I expect him to have a commanding presence but somehow Kong Wah even if he had extra tanning and such didn't quite cut it. Everything seems so wrong that when Wayne appeared, it was more bearable but his story was quite silly at first. Why can't TVB just treat this story as it is and give it some respectability, some accuracy, and a whole lot of romanticism? The original legend on Hon Yu was both tragic, honourable and quite romantic although historically i believed he made several bad moves. Only the cunning ones who are not so honourable BUT are scheming and calculative in using talents can cut it as an emperor. They make good managers, Hon Yu types make good assistants. Why can't TVB just do that for once?
And then I caught Shades of Truth. Felt like it was comedy when the story of Water Margin Infernal Affaird (that's the title in chinese) was both morbid and tragic because these two stories are tragic. Wong Hei looked like he was more concerned about the way he stand and hold his gun and stuff than to actually just bloody act naturally and Chilam Cheung looked more concerned with having the right expression as in those eyebrows up and curved nicely than just please act realistically. One of the worst series I have ever had to watch.
A Conquerer's Story has hope, when Adam Cheng settles down from his overacting stupid Lau Bong and just settle down as the Lau Bong who would be Emperor, everybody stop acting like this is some buddy movie and Kong Wah to fall in love with Melissa Ng's character. One thing though; Melissa looks very pretty and so was Maggie.
The problem with these series is first and foremost the insincere storyline. Taking your viewers' for a ride is not the way to achieve good ratings now. You must treat them as intelligent himan beings who wants to be entertained. I am just appalled at the screwed up storyline and the wrong hyperactive imagination of the writers. Suddenly Lau Bong is the good guy. I don't think so because really, how dumb must Adam Cheng act like before he is given some integrity in his character?
I shudder to think how TVB will make Three Kingdoms. Can't imagine Cao Cao as sympathetically nice great guy whilst Lau Bei as someone scheming but stupid.
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13 COMMENTS
The problem is with characterisation. Lau Bong was very scheming [not the dumb, sympathetic person as it was in the serial] and was a good leader. Hong Yu was heroic, but apparently quite dumb. Hon Sun was not merely an arrogant, conniving rat. But Lau Bong's literal stupidity and childishness irritated me more than Hong Yu's gangsterly shouting at first, so I guess I have the biggest problem with Lau Bong, unfortunately a character upon which 70% of the serial is based on.
The movie is also a romanticised version of history. It's not fact.
To say the series is twisted and inccurate just because it's not the same as the movie is just double standard.
Yes, Lau Bong in the real history was not as stupid as in the series. I wish the scripwriter has made him smarter too. I'm annoyed at first too. But later I get use to it. It's just a different look on the historical text. The historical text only record down the events that has happenned. What the historical character really like is up to the reader's interpretation. The scriptwriter is also not totally wrong in potraying Lau Bong. The real historical Lau Bong really did have amazing people skill and he was a womaniser and as abc says, Lau Bong started out late, so Adam Cheng has the right look since he look younger than his age. What made Lau Bong successful was his ability to make use of the talent around him. He has a knack of keeping talented people with him. In this series, they did show Lau Bong having great people skill. Except for Lau Bong's intelligence and the story of his concubines, this story is NOT twisted. It's still the most historically accurate series TVB has ever made. Many said it's 80% accurate to history. Lau bong was not evil impersonate. Many movies choose to potray him as evil because he went back on his word with Hong Yu.
As for Hong Yu, he was honourable and a very capable general and also intelligent. But he was also rash and can be tyrannical (this was based on what I read in the historical text). His downfall was because he did not know how use the talent around him. He did not know how to appreaciate the talent under him, thus driving them away to help Lau Bong instead. The only good advisor that didn't leave, he seldom listen to him. This matter was potrayed well in the series, and the series actually potrayed Hong Yu in a pretty good light in this matter.
And how is Hon Sun's story silly? I find it very romantic.
Btw, I really like the historical Hon Sun. The scripwriter exagerated his character and made him an unbearable arrogant person, just to make Lau Bong looks good and blameless. I wish they have not done that. But I still won't dismiss this series as twisted and inaccurate and a bad series because it is not. A lot of the storyline in the series is accurate and faithful to historical text.
Hong Yu was not a paragon of virtue and integrity. He was also human and has his faults. In the making of TCS, the producer has discussed about the personality of various characters in TCS, and he said, Hong Yu's downfall was because he 'gei choi' (roughly translated as jealous of talent) while Lau Bong's strength was his uncanny ability to attract people to him. I've listened to radio show last year hosted by learned men and women on various subject. In one episode, they discussed about what is a hero. They actually don't consider Hong Yu a 'Ying Hong' but a 'Hiu Hong'. 'Ying Hong' is a hero while 'Hiu Hong' is a brave intelligent warrior. (P.S. that's their opinion, not mine).
I think Shi Ji (the famous historical text written by Sima Qian) actually favoured Lau Bong a bit more, although Sima Qian tried to be as unbias as possible. But history is written by victors, so Hong Yu might not be 'gei choi' but have other reason not to use the talents under him.
Reintepretation of history is always going on. Popular opinion today might become wrong intepretation tomorrow. For a long time Nero was considered a moster but historians now think he was a victim of slandereous propaganda. Historians are still in debate today on whether Hon Sun really did intent to rebel or not.
So, I just consider the potrayal of Lau Bong in this series as a fresh interpretation.
P.S. sorry for the angry tone in my previous post.
But here, we spend 40 eps guessing why on earth did Lau Bong betray Hong Yu because Lau Bong didn't seem to care about fame and glory? I think it is more suspenseful and the ending more poignant and ironic as the eps go on.
Seriously, I never thought Hong Yu was that honourable even when I read the books and instead thought him to be quite crackers and aggressive. That's why I had always liked Lau Bong better. So I never really felt that sorry for Hong Yu even when I saw the Ray Lui movie because he had it coming.
This version is one of the most accurate TVB history adaptions ever made, and apart from a few minor glitches, everything is reasonably accurate but done from a different perceptive where neither man is a villian, but both are flawed characters with good and bad traits which makes it even more realistic.
If you want a traditional view of a scheming Lau Bong, you may want to watch out for that mainland adaption of this Chor Hon story coming out soon, with Hu Jun and Jacqueline Wu as Lau Bong and Lui Chi.
With this version, I think we all need to watch it with an open heart and see how it goes. It's not as bad as it initially looks. It's not perfect, but it's not bad.
Yes, I've also read many description of Hong Yu being proud and aggresive. Some even uses the phrase 'pat fu zi yung'(匹夫之勇) to describe him, but I disagree with that. If he's just all bravery and no brain, he won't be able to think up those brilliant war strategies. But his downfall really was his temper. Boiling someone alive because that person said something offensive about him.
I did feel sorry for Hong Yu. All happy going home thinking everything's fine and suddenly got attacked and all his army friends and his lover died.
Actually, what I dislike Hong Yu the most was that he burned down the Qin Emperor's palace and all valuable books burn down with it. All that vast collection of knowledge all gone. The Qin Emperor might have killed scholars and burn books, but he actually kept a copy of each of them in the palace library.
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=157
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1886
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2466
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=59
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1349
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1096
And the Or Fong Palace. It was a shame that such a masterpiece was just burnt to the ground. I mena I know HY burned it down because it stodd for how the Qin dynasty robbed their peple, but it still had many important artefacts (some say that the Shang and Zhou historical records and artefacts were all burnt in that stupid fire.
So we don't have any more accurate history accounts of pre-Han now, considering Qin history books were also burned). It's like a part of our culture gone forever.
I don't think HY is stupid or anything because you have to have great brains and determination to lead such a great battle, and the Qin armies weren't exactly weak. But the way he treated his subordinates, he certainly had it coming.
Seeing your post, u definitely are knowledgeble enough in the Chor-Han War already. You read the whole Shi Jing? :)
Well, I side neither of them. But I do think LB was a better leader than HY. At least he learned from his mistakes, never said die and listened to advice.
I'm more interested in his surbodinates Hon Shun, Cheung Leung, Siu Hor and Chan Ping.
I admire Hon Shun me moment I read about his 胯下之辱(humiliation from crawling between legs). I admire him for being able to bear a moment of humiliation so that he has a chance to achieve great things later. No 士可杀而不可辱 nonsense. People at that time thought him a coward, but he was just being sensible and clear-headed.
About Chan Ping. I think the series gives too little credit to him. That man was brilliant.
I agree that LB was a better leader as well and knew which people to use where. Even in the series where he was quite a dope, he showed people respect and genuine care, which is always useful to make a group deadly loyal to you.
Hon Shun certainly had the vision that no other man of his time could, and that's why he succeeded. He was not bound by the restrictions of society and just went ahead to succeed.
It irked me that TVB made Hon Shun such a jerk int he end. The real guy was actually quite loyal and obedient to LB. TVb made it like he aimed to get rid of and replace LB the moment he joined.
My fav character in the series i Cheung Leung who seems pretty consistent with the real one in history.
Chan Ping's character was probabaly dumbed down and made quite narrow-minded because he was too much like Cheung Leung so of the time. And also the fact that most of his accomplishments were after the Chor-Han war, so TVB cast his as an unimportant character.
I would have loved to see TVB film LB being trapped by the Xiongnu, and how Chan Ping used his wits to get them out safely with one picture. I wished the series had talked about Chan Ping and Siu Hor in the end when narrating what happened afterwards.
I hate the fact that the TVB series kept reminding us of him and his sister-in-law. It made him look like a pervert.
Anyway, didn't we have a discussion about the change of LB's and HS's character sometime last year on SPCNET? It was quite interesting.
BTW, have you seen "Han Wu Da Di" from Mainland China with Chen Bao Guo as Liu Che? People from baidu are taking the story apart and harping on minor non-accuracies as well. Quite intersting.
As for 'Han Wu Da Di', no I didn't watch it, and strangely, not interested at all. If they had made a series about Liu Heng (Han Wen Di) instead, I would have been very interested because Han Wen Di is my favourite Han Emperor. I really admire how he avoided Empress Lui Chi princes-murdering schemes. He did it by pretending to be really retarded, so the Empress won't considers him a treat. So, instead of murdering him, she just sent him far far away.
Is 'Han Wu Da Di' really good? If yes, I might watch it.
Yeah! "Han Wu Da Di" is great if you like political battles and war scenes! It's a combo of Han Jing Di and Han Wu Di's reign. It's heaps better than "Da Han Tian Zi" which made me fall asleep.
For those who have read the actual history books (like us), will immediately pick up any subtle inaccuracies, but if you ignore those: the acting is good, the music is good, and the series is quite dramatic and emotional without being soppy.
Here's a link to a 30-minute Mandarin trailer of HWDD: http://www.blogcn.com/user31/weiqing_s/index.html
It is one of the best trailers I have ever seen, but i got really annoyed with the classical music at the end. Lucky it is not in the real version.
I like Liu Bing Yi, and his story really interests me. He goes from royal great-grandson to prison within 5 months of birth, then spends 5 years in prison. He grows up as a commonner, and no one wanted to marry him except the lowly daughter of an eunuch.
Then all of a sudden, he gets crowned Emperor, but yet he does nto forget his benefactors and his wife, who he refused to divorce. His reign is very peaceful and he is a good ruler who listened to his advisors, yet remained indepednent enough to go against and bring down the powerful Huo family.
I guess his commoner upbringing really affected his views of ruling and he cared a lot for the common people rather than just the aristocrats.
I don't think I will notice minor inaccuracies. I didn't read Shi Jing because of my poor command of written chinese. My knowledge comes from reading english historical writeups about the Han Dynasty and visiting chinese history discussions forum. Some of those writeups are quite detailed (like the one about Han Wen Di), but I don't think they are as detailed as reading the Shi Jing itself.
Liu Bing Yi was like Liu Bang then. It's Liu Bang's knowledge of how the commoners feel and what the commoners want that made him such a good ruler.
The Liu Bing Yi story arch seems interesting. I'll give the series a try.
To Funn.
Please don't give up on The Conqueror's Story yet. It's a really worthy series. The bulk of the story is very faithful to real history, even Lau Bong killing the white shake incident was true (although I'm sure it's no as hilarious as depiected in the series). The series just present the characters from a different perspective from common view.
Here's some stuff on Liu Bing Yi, Emperor Han Xuan Di.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Xuan_of_Han
And I think you were a bit confused by my last message. Liu Bing Yi is not featured in "Han Wu Da Dai", but his whole life is a consequence of events occuring Han Wu Di Liu Che's reign. I think China was considering to make one on Liu Bing Yi, but I haven't heard anything about it yet.
Anyway, if you finished the series and want to find me later on, find me at SPCNET.
To Funn: If you don't like the story, watch it for the acting. It really has a great collection of talented artistes.