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April 18, 2006

A Conqueror's Tale : The real story of the Empress Lu Zhi 
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I think that is the name of Maggie Cheung's character in this series. I am very confused.

The series ended with her dying, Angela Tong's character becoming Empress Dowager and ruled the dynasty through her son.

The history I read was very different.

I was very shocked to have read she was the one who later after Liu Bang's death chopped off Qi's (and I assume this is Angela Tong's character because she had a son)hands and legs, stuffed her in a big bottle thing and fed her feaces and basically let her rot to death after poisoning her son. It couldn't be the other concubine because she had a good relationship with that woman in the series. Empress Lu in fact became the ruler behind the veil. (Source)

But the series was so very different. Which is which?

Anyway I am so excited. Despite the distortion of the historical truth or rather the white washing of it, I think I am still eager to write my review based on the series and not the facts. But wouldn't it be great to see Maggie Cheung as THAT evil? From the stories of Empress Lu, this woman deserves her own story, all 40 episodes of it.

26 COMMENTS

Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Funn, I think u misunderstood the narator.

The narator said after Lau Bong's death, Lui Chi became the Empress Dowager and ruled the Dynasty through her son. Only after Lui Chi's death did Bok Gei (Angela)'s son became the Emperor. The narator never said Bok Gei ruled behind the view.

The end naration was true to history. I already know this history before I saw the ending. I was complaining about the distortion of the women's story throughout watching the series. I would have noticed if the naration was wrong.

In the real history, Lui Chi hated Ghik Gei because Chik Gei was Lau Bong's favourite concubine and her son was Lau Bong's favourite son. She also especially despised Chik Gei because Chik Gei tried to get Lau Bong to make her own son become his heir and removed Lui Chi's son. But Lui Chi got Cheung Leung to help her to convince Lau Bong not to change heir. So, her son became the Emperor. But he didn't lived long. After he died, Lui Chi get 2 other kids (or 1, I forgot) to become Emperor so she can rule behind the veil. Lui Chi also killed most of Lau Bong's other children by his other concubines except Bok Gei's son. The reason was Bok Gei and her son was spared was because
1) Bok Gei was an insignification concubine. She's not one of Lau Bong's beloved.
2) Bok Gei's son pretended to be an idiot, so Lui Chi thought he's not a treat and just sent him far away.

The concubine that Lui Chi made into mince meat was Cerina's character, Chik Gei. Yes, they don't have a good relationship in the real history.

The narator mentioned Bok Gei's son because he later became a great Emperor titled Han Wei Di (Emperor Wen of Han). He and his son's reign became the golden age of Han Dynasty (Wen Jing Era).


10:35 pm, April 18, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

More real history.

The real Chik Gei was not forest bumpkin like in the series. The real Lady Chik was an educated woman. Some sources said she's the one wo invented the game of 'Go' (a kind of chess game). She always played the game with Lau Bong and each time, she won.

Lui Chi, while cruel to her enemies, was a pretty good ruler. There were internal struggle without the court, but outside was peaceful.
Can u believe that this cruel lady was also the one who abolished the execute whole family for 1 person crime rule (Yi 3 Zu)?


10:51 pm, April 18, 2006  


Blogger Funn Lim writes ...

I see! So it was Chik Gei not Bok Gei! But this series showed she had a good relationship with Chik Gei!

I can actually believe this cruel woman can be a good ruler simply because she is cruel only to those she hated. Those that never crossed her like the ordinary citizens never get tortured in this sense. I think she takes her enemies very seriously and she is offensive and defensive towards the enemies she knows. I can understand why she chopped off the hands and feet of Chik Gei though kinda extreme.

Now I see! That's why this series should have showed the true state of affairs with the women because I was so confused. To end it by saying she died he died was a bit too impersonal. After all the Empress did rule behind the veil.

Interesting.

Oh she couldn't have invented Go. Go was invented by an emperor. Legend has it she plays the game of Go with the emperor.

I wonder how long she lived in that state?


12:18 am, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

The real Chik Gei was a tart as well. She wanted to equal status and treatment as the empress in public functions and Lau Bing kept her. Lui Chi was smart enough to kept quiet for all those years, but the anger inside her was bottled up for years of oppression (she was actually quite subtle befroe Lua Bing's death, unlike in the series), making her quiet sadistic at times later on.

Originally, Empress Lui just made Lady Chik worn in a mill but then Lady Chik couldn't take the hard work and wrote this poem about how favoured she used to be, which pissed off Lui Chi and ordered her limbs cut off, her eyes gouged out, her tongue ripped out and poisoned mute. Then she showed her own son Emperor Wei, who freaked out, became ill and died.

I think Lui Chi learned from the three times Lady Chik almost succedded in persuading lua Bing to make her son, Yu Yi, Crown Prince and realised that all male heirs were a potential threat, and she started killing them.

I empathise with her all the way, she was very much in danger of losing her life and her children at various points in her life, and it was understandable that she was that cruel.

The real Lady Bo was a concubine of Wei Ngai, who was some duke (I think he was in the series, the dude who tried to offer Angela to Adam when Angela first appeared).

Anyway, Lady Bo once met a fortuneteller when she was a dancer who said that she would day be "mother of a nation (aka give birth to a ruler)". Ngai Pao heard that and married her, hoping taht she would bear him a son and that would make him Emperor.

But Lau Bong took over his harem when Ngai Pao fell, Lady Bo only slept with Lau Bong once through the help of her two good friends who were favoured by Lau Bong (in the series, the two who were walking with her when they find Adam injured), but he forgot about her afterwards.

She endured years of humiliation and loneliness, but in fact, this saved her life as Lui Chi didn't find her a threat, and pitied her.

So Lui Chi is not all that bad!


5:16 am, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

But Lui Chi was a nutter at times. Because her son Emperor Wei was a homosexual and preferred the company of men, he had limited children.

To secure power, Lui Chi married her grandduagher (daughter of Princess Lo Yuen) to her son as Empress Zhang, so actually, she made a uncle marry his niece!!!!

But lucky he was homosexual and they didn't commit incest, but he did slept with maids and have children. To secure Empress Zhang's power, Lui Chi killed these maids and minor pregnant concubines and even took one of those children to pass as the Empress own, and later puppet Emperor.

But then, there are rumours that he was too homosexual to have children and that they were not of the Lau bloodline.

Anyway, strange family!!!


5:21 am, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Originally, Empress Lui just made Lady Chik worn in a mill but then Lady Chik couldn't take the hard work and wrote this poem about how favoured she used to be, which pissed off Lui Chi and ordered her limbs cut off, her eyes gouged out, her tongue ripped out and poisoned mute. Then she showed her own son Emperor Wei, who freaked out, became ill and died.

But, I still think Lui Chi was too cruel. The woman;s her head was shaved (to become bald), forced to wear rags and work in mills. A favoured concubine to a lowly slave. It's understandable that she lamented. People need to find an outlet to voice her sadness sometimes. Anyway, it's a common way for educated ladies to voice their grieve. Many lady poets voice their grieve this way.

On the homosexual part. It seems like it's run in the family. Haha. Most of the Han Emperors were either homosexuals or bisexuals. I didn't know Emperor Wei was homosexual. I thought Emperor Ai was the only strictly homosexual Han emperor. The others were all bisexuals.

Actually, I think it has to do with the conditions of the palace. The court decorum was strict. Emperors were not supposed to discuss state affairs with their concubines and wives. Their closest companions were actually eunuches and other men where they can pour out their hearts contents.
I think, that's why a lot of Emperors has male lovers.
Even Qian Long has one. :D

I like Emperor Wei. He was a weak emperor, but he was very kind-hearted. In history books, we always read about princes fighting and killing each other for the throne. And here we have an Emperor who tried hard to save the life of a half-brother who nearly replaced him as the emperor.


8:56 am, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

When women take revenge, it can be so much more cruel than men.

Empress Wu Zhi Tian also gave the same treatment to 2 of her rivals when she came into power. I feel sorry of her 2 rivals. They certainly don't deserves such treatment. They were the victims throughout Empress Wu's rise to power scheme.


11:34 am, April 19, 2006  


Blogger Funn Lim writes ...

Elizabeth! Wah! So much info I didn't know. I think that concubine dug her own grave if she did that. Whilst admittedly the empress is cruel, but I think someone so jealous can't commit such degraded act that even made her son ill. I think it's in her. Cruel yes, overkill definitely. But only to her enemies. Which in a way does not make what she did ok but understandable. But scooping the eyes out and keeping her alive is much too much.

In the long history of civilisation, the rulers and the rich and powerful has always been bisexual. I don't think emperor wen was gay, I think he was quite simply bisexual. Can't blame him since where to learn about sex if all those that surrounds you are either maids or court jesters. Like the roman empire, most of them view bisexuality as something ok, no big deal. No doubt he was a very benevolent king. So gay or not gay doesn't negate the fact he was one of the most respected rulers of China.

I think at that time marrying a niece is ok? In Indian culture it is ok to marry your uncle. Maybe niece was from mother's side which makes it even more ok?

Oh by the way is it Emperor Wei or Emperor Wen di? Wei was no. 2 in the line? The one rumoured gay was emperor wen, son of consort bo. I don't think he was a weak emperor. He was a benevolent and ideal type of emperor, a weak emperor however kind hearted could not have created Han's golden years. It takes sensibility, and taking the best interest of his people into his heart. In fact this is that kind of emperors those mythical type that China believed they had wayyyyyyyy before the very first mythical dynasty.


So very interesting, at last a series that talks about history and interesting poeple. Don't you agree empress lu deserves a series of her own ala War & Beauty? It is rare but so very true that for once FACT is in fact wayyyyyyy better and more interesting that fiction.

Can anyone direct me to any historical accounts of Yu Gei? Can't seem to find her, almost as if she was just a beautiful myth and I believe so too.


2:28 pm, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Oh by the way is it Emperor Wei or Emperor Wen di? Wei was no. 2 in the line? The one rumoured gay was emperor wen, son of consort bo. I don't think he was a weak emperor. He was a benevolent and ideal type of emperor, a weak emperor however kind hearted could not have created Han's golden years. It takes sensibility, and taking the best interest of his people into his heart. In fact this is that kind of emperors those mythical type that China believed they had wayyyyyyyy before the very first mythical dynasty.

Funn, it's not a typo error. I did mean Emperor Wei when I type "I like Emperor Wei. He was a weak emperor, but he was very kind-hearted."

I should have wrote Emperor Hui instead of Emperor Wei. Elizabeth use cantonese pinyin, so I followed her. 'Wei' is pronounced as 'Hui' in mandarin. The one I said weak is Lui Chi's son got ill and died early.

I wouldn't say Emperor Wen was a great Emperor if I think he was weak.

Cantonese: Emperor Wei
Mandarin: Emperor Hui

Cantonese: Emperor Man
Mandarin: Emperor Wen

Cantonese: Emperor Mo
Pinyin: Emperor Wu

Please take notice when reading Elizabeth's post. She uses Cantonese pinyin for all name. I think u should reread her and get back the right idea. :D

Emperor Wen is favourite Han Emperor (although his points has diminished a bit after a know he was the Emperor who re-established the 'Yi 3 Zu' punishment). I like him the most not only because he was benevolent. He was also highly intelligent. First the idiot act that kept him alive. I was really impressed with that. But he also has the ability to make people do what he wanted without asking. People actually think it's their own idea.

After Elizabeth's advertisment, Emperor Xuan has also gone up there alongside Emperor Wen on my favourite Emperor list. This was another very benevolent Emperor. :D

On the gay issue, not only Emperor Wen was rumoured gay, many other great Emperors including the famous Han Wu Di were rumoured gay. But the one and only Emperor that was confirmed 100% gay was Emperor Ai. The others were mostly bi.


3:35 pm, April 19, 2006  


Blogger Adelyn writes ...

Yey, Funn... you're doing a review on this! I thought you didn't like it.

Anyway, I was wondering about one part of the series. Remember the part when Lau Bong and family were running away from Hong Yu and then Lu Zhi took her kids and jumped out of the carriage? I thought in real life he threw them out? Am I wrong?

Anyway, when you're free go look at

http://asianfanatics.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t908.html

There are quite a number of pictures, and people's comments.


5:05 pm, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Remember the part when Lau Bong and family were running away from Hong Yu and then Lu Zhi took her kids and jumped out of the carriage? I thought in real life he threw them out? Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. In recorded history, Lau Bong did throw out his kids and wife and not only once. The first time he threw out his kid, Ha Hau Ying, the carriage driver, caught the kid back, but Lau Bong threw him out again.

This series might be the most faithful-to-history series TVB has ever made, but it's still not 100% faithful. The scriptwriter(s) tried very hard to make Lau Bong blameless in this series. To achieve this they also demonised Hon Sun. Hon Sun was not as arrogant as the series potrayed. He was actually very grateful to Lau Bong for giving him the chance to succeed. That's why, when Lau Bong hadn't became Emperor yet, HS's assistant asked him to take the country for himself, but he refused and stayed loyal to Lau Bong out of gratitude. It's only after Lau Bong demoted him (over some unfounded charges of betrayal) that he rebeled.

Anyway, despite my complain, I still think this series is one of the best series TVB ever made in recent years and the best series made in 2004.


5:41 pm, April 19, 2006  


Blogger Adelyn writes ...

Yeah Kidd, I agree with you that this is one of the best made series from TVB. I absolutely loved it. This is the one and only ancient series which I can sit down and really watch and be really captivated and not complain.

Though, if I were Lu Zhi in this series, I would never have stuck with Lau Bong. I'm a feminist and I will never be able to stand the fact that not only is my husband useless, he's a womanizer.

I can't believe he actually fooled around with that Bok Gei, while his whole family was captured. In this series I felt that Lau Bong didn't deserve Lu Zhi. =p

Well, at least Lau Bong wasn't that much of a bum in real life... though the womanizer part should be real.

Guys.... *sigh*


5:57 pm, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Though, if I were Lu Zhi in this series, I would never have stuck with Lau Bong. I'm a feminist and I will never be able to stand the fact that not only is my husband useless, he's a womanizer.

Ahh..That's why Lui Chi became the most powerful woman in her country and u did not :P. U think Lui Chi was not a feminist? If she's not a feminist, she will be like Yu Gei, all soft and gentle and unambitious. She was a feminist, but also a shrewd and practical woman. Instead of stubbornly holding on to the impratical idea of "I'm a feminist. I need no womanizing and useless husband.", she knew the value of Lau Bong. She also knew that the patriachal society will not support a woman leader easily. So, she took the best route she can. Get a husband that has the potential to become emperor and work behind the scene to achieve her goal i.e. being the most powerful woman in china. Think about it. If she came out on her own to lead, will anyone follow her? But, as Lau Bong's wife, she can lead in the name of Lau Bong. Instead of being viewed as a woman who went against custom and her womanly duty, she was viewed as a dutiful wife who supported her husband's quest. Lau Bong might be unambitious and not that bright. But one thing he has that more intelligent people like Hong Yu don't have was people skill and likeablity. He attracted people to him. He was popular. Many people liked him and willing to support him. That's why Lui Chi chose him in the first place.


6:41 pm, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

OK, I will use Mandarin pinyin to lessen confusion.

Nah Funn, marrying your neice, whether paternal or materal is not OK. in chinese culture. Traditionally, the Chinese belived that only people of the same level shoudl get married, uncle is one level above niece so it is not ok, but maternal cousins are.

I believe it was karma for Empress Lu when her son died. It was at a time where she thought she was invincible and her enemy was vanquished, but at that point, she lost her only son. Anyway, Lady Chi only lasted for two days and died.

The homosexuallity actually dates back quite a while to the warring states, several kings had affaisr with their male advisiers, notably the King of Wei with Lord Long Yang, leading to the future term "Long Yang Zhi Pi" to describe homosexual tendencies.

The Han dynasty actually has the most number of bisexual emperors ever, mainly because they had good and accurate historical accounts, and the society then accepted it. Han Wu Di has the most number of rumoured boyfriends, but Han Ai Di was the most notable one.

I love Emperor Xuan. My favourite Han emperor ever! :D


6:48 pm, April 19, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

To Adelyn:

The society back then was ery supportive of polygamy for men, so Lau Bong fooling around with Bok Gei was not that much of a moral issue, but we see things differently by now.

I agreewith Kidd, that Lu Chi (using mandrin pinyin) is a practical woman. It is obvious that she is pained by the act that her husband, but she knows her priorities.

There is no point grabbing onto something that will never be yours alone, so instead she aims for what she can get - power and her name in histoy. I think this sort of women.

I am a feminist too, but still, if I was in her position, I would strive for the same as well. I am a heavily ambitious person. :D

I see Empress Lu as a person with great vision. She is actually quite a decisive ruler. There was one point in time where she got this insulting letter of marriage proposal from the drunk Xiong Nu chief Mao Dun, who proposed that they should get together and get happy.

If it was any other person who got this letter, war would have definately been declared on teh Xiongnu due to the insult. But Lu Chi saw how weak her country was, and putting aside persoanl humiliation, wrote back a humble letter and proposed marrying pseudo-princess over instead to maintain peace, and it worked.

I just think Empress Lu is a great woman. Much better than Cixi who had too much ego and not enough far-sight. :p


6:58 pm, April 19, 2006  


Blogger Adelyn writes ...

Yes yes. Kidd, Elizabeth. You are all right. I might never be a Lu Zhi on that aspect, though I suspect if threatened, I might also chop the limbs off my love rival and stuff her in a big bottle.

I'm an ambitious person by nature too though I might draw a line when it comes to love.

Does she really love Lao Bong? Or just used him to be Empress? Or a bit of both?

Because I'm really confused. I never thought Lu Zhi sincerely loved him. But there was one part where she declared that she wants to be an Empress but only Lao Bong's empress. I was really impressed and touched by that declaration though.

Well, if I'm Lu Zhi and I just want to use Lao Bong, then yes, I don't care if he has a gazillion concubines, as long as I'm queen.

But if love is involved then, erm. I think Lu Zhi is one great woman. Great perseverence.


7:16 pm, April 19, 2006  


Blogger Funn Lim writes ...

I am amazed that through various interpretation a woman rumoured or rather well known to be as cruel as she was to her enemies could at the end of the day garenered so much support. A bit like the romans who were very cruel to their enemies.

There are many historical accounts and since this is one of the early dynasties, do read the accounts with very little faith in them. Who was that that said history was written by the victors? I believe history was written by hate clubs and fan clubs alike.

Was Hon Sun as depicted in the series? I hope to give an analysis having read a few articles on him, but not all were flattering. I believe the Hon Sun in the series bore some truth in this character, a very practical analysis. Some even said ZhugeLiang was not as smart as depicted but he was loyal. Was Hon Sun loyal? Was he THAT loyal? Was he as arrogant? Was Lau Bong THAT stupid and indecisive? Was Hon Yu THAT arrogant as in blind arrogance?

One thing for sure. Hon Yu was praised as a true hero, for better or for worse. lau Bong was recognised as an able and benevolent emperor. Empress Lu was documented to be power hungry (who wouldn't? Look at the circumstances) and innately cruel to the point of maliciously cruel. Someone can't be nice if she could gouge out her enemy's eyes, chop off limbs and etc. She must be innately cruel and evil, but we know she wasn't stupid to ruin her comfortable position. But to be behind the veil and interupting in the state business is of course a very telling sign. Cixi was in a class of her own; she was plain stupid.

I do not know the history, not as familiar as I was with Tang and Qing or even Qin. I am beginning to read the text and am beginning to form my own opinion. I may never know them but there is no denying the legacy they left behind, Hon Sun, Hon Yu and Lau Bong are enough to tell me they must have did something great or something evil to guarantee a place in the history books.

Which makes me come back to the question; how accurate was the series' portrayal of Hon Sun? Remember Ngok Fei who can be term as extremely loyal or extremely stupid or both? Perhaps TVB may have given us what may be more realistic Hon Sun.

I shall talk more in my review.


1:26 am, April 20, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Don't forget Cheung Leung and Siu Ho.

Hon Sun, Cheung Leung and Siu Ho were known as 3 great helpers who enbled Lau Bong gain the throne. Their legacies were as great as Hon Sun. Without any one of them, Lau Bong would not be able to become Emperor.

Read more about this 3 guys here:

Siu Ho: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=4651

Cheung Leung:
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1568

Hon Sun:
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=161&hl=han+xin
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2169&hl=han+xin
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1349&hl=han+xin


2:22 am, April 20, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Hey kidd, you forgot Chan Ping. He's is one smart guy/ I felt bad for how he was depeicted in the sreies. He looked like a jealous, gossiping fool. Chen Ping was a loyal and strategic person.


2:26 am, April 20, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Haha. No, Lizzy. I didn't forget Chan Ping. His name popped up in my mind too when I listed the 3 musketeers. But the SH, HS and CL were the 3 listed as most instrumental to the success of Lau Bong and they were always listed together. Chan Ping was seldom group the togther with the 3, so, I didn't include him.

Sorry, I search around and can't find any english article on Chan Ping. I remember reading one but didn't keep it. :(

Maybe u can help out in providing info for him, Lizzy, since u are like a walking history encyclopedia. :)

Off the top of my head.
- Chen Ping was very handsome (yes it's actually mentioned in historical text).
- He was instrumental in bringing back the power of the Han Dynasty to the Lau family by bringing Lau Hang (Bok Gei's son) to the throne after Lui Chi's death.
- He served as minister (ane one time prime minister, at another time left minister) from the reign of Lau Bong to Lau Hang.

Chan Ping was a very shrewd strategist as well and a very good PR person as depicted in the series. He knew which master to follow and which to have a good relationship with. He can see where the wind blows and follow it's direction. (metaphorically). This allowed him to stay alive, and kept his high position in the Han court while the other people who helped Lau Bong to the throne like Hon Sun, Ying Bo etc get a bad end. Even Cheung Leung prefered to opt out of politics. But Chan Ping stayed and prospered. He was loyal to the Lau family, but during Lui Chi's reign, he kept quiet and served Lui Chi. But after Lui Chi's death, he immediately set up a plan to get Lau Bong's direct descesdant back to the throne and took the initiative to invite Lau Hang to become Emperor and eliminate Lau Hang's enemies for him.

An interest excerpt on Chan Ping's good looks:

In the Chinese classic Lasting Words to Awaken the World there appears this line: "Can it be that you really dislike me for being too ugly? Must everyone be a Chen Ping or Pan An?" Pan An is famous, but who was Chen Ping?

It is said that Chen Ping came from a poor family, but that he was tall, good looking and studious. But his eldest brother's wife said that he didn't earn his keep and that it would be thus better not to have a younger brother at all.

When Chen Ping came of age to take a wife, the neighboring families whether wealthy or poor were all unwilling to part with their daughters to a man like him. But then he met a wealthy man named Zhang Fu. Zhang told his son that he wanted his granddaughter to marry Chen, advice that made his son exclaim in disbelief: "But that guy is very poor and without a job!" Zhang loudly protested, "When have you seen someone as handsome as Chen Ping staying poor for long?" As expected, Chen Ping soon found one door opening after another for him to advance his career. He would serve as the prime minister to Liu Bang, the first emperor of the Han dynasty. And in the Historical Records Sima Qian wrote a passage about "Minister Chen Ping."

While there are instances of attractive people being taken advantage of from classical times to the present, Chen Ping is an example of a man who combined both good "fate looks" and "skin-deep looks." To Zhang, a wise, broadminded man of discriminating taste, "the longer he looked at Chen, the better Chen looked."


Source: http://www.taiwanheadlines.org/20000426/20000425f3.html


9:09 am, April 20, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

To Zhang, a wise, broadminded man of discriminating taste, "the longer he looked at Chen, the better Chen looked."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Was Zhang homosexual? :o Sound scary.


10:33 pm, April 20, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

To Zhang, a wise, broadminded man of discriminating taste, "the longer he looked at Chen, the better Chen looked."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Was Zhang homosexual? :o Sound scary.


I don't see anything scarry about it. U never judge a girl's beauty before? Never commented about a girl looking more beautiful the more u see her (yuet tai yuet sun ngan) before?

Funn! u are so gay. Always saying how beautiful Fann Wong and Charmaine Sheh is. :p


11:37 pm, April 20, 2006  


Blogger Funn Lim writes ...

Elizabeth, admiring people of the same sex doesn't mean you're gay. It just shows how good looking the guy was. But having said that, who knows, he might have that gayness in him. Depending on how he said it, how he looked at him. But to me it was a harmless statement.

Yes Kidd, I can be soooo gay based on that assessment alone until I said something more gay like nakedness and all. If Zhang said that, yep, maybe he is gay.

Any portrait of Chen Ping out there?


12:28 am, April 21, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Nah! I thought it was a bit quiet here yesretday and was just joking ! :p


8:02 pm, April 21, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

Here's more insight into the character of the real Lau Bong, Hon Shun, Hong Yu and Chan Ping, if you are still interest.

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=157&st=60

I especially like the post that list the a number of incidents that showed Hon Shun was not as ambitious and Hong Yu and Lau Bong.
Another interesting post is a list of reasons why Hong Yu was able to attract talented people to him but unable to keep them.

I prefer reading info from this forum than wikipedia and other encyclopedia, because it contains opinions from many different people. So, u see different sides of a historical figure.


11:54 pm, May 07, 2006  


Anonymous Anonymous writes ...

More on Han Xin http://www.clearharmony.net/articles/200508/28391.html

Han Xin: The Most Famous General of the Han Dynasty

Han Xin (?? – 196 BC), a militarist at the beginning of the Han Dynasty, was from Huaiyin in China(today’s Jiangsu Province). Both of his parents passed away when he was young. Although he was very poor, he studied hard and became familiar with military strategy and tactics. He had great ambition and wanted to become an important person one day. Without any source of income, he often had to go to the houses of different friends to eat. Sometimes he went to the Huai River to catch fish in exchange of some money. He was often discriminated against by people around him. Once, a gang of ruffians humiliated him in public. A butcher said to him: “Although you are tall and big and like to carry sword, I know you are a coward. Do you dare to kill me with your sword? If you dare not, you have to crawl between my legs.” Han Xin had a lot of ambition and knew that if he killed the man he’d be paying for it with his life. How could he just casually kill a man? His mind wasn’t moved by it, he thus crawled between butcher’s feet in front of everyone. The historical tale calls it: “The humiliation of crawling between someones legs.”

In 209 BC, two farmers, Chen Sheng and We Guang, started an upraising against the corrupt Qin Dynasty. Soon rebellions broke out everywhere in China. Han Xin went to join the rebel army of Xiang Liang, who founded the nation of West Chu. After Xiang Liang was killed in a battle, his nephew Xiang Yu became the ruler of West Chu. Xiang Yu didn’t think much of Han Xin and only gave him a position as a guard. Han Xin made numerous suggestions to Xiang Yu, but none of them was adopted. He resented the treatment and left Chu camp to join another rebel army called Han under Lord Liu Bang.

At the beginning, Liu Bang didn’t think much of him either and only appointed him as an officer to manage the food supply. Han Xin realised Liu Bang wouldn’t give him any important position and decided to leave again. But Liu Bang’s Prime Minister, Xiao He, was aware of Han Xin’s ability. When he heard the news that Han Xin had left, he rode his horse chasing after Han Xin all night and persuaded him to return. There is a phrase about this story: “Xiao He pursuing Han Xin under the moon.”

Later, after numerous recommendations by Xiao He, Liu Bang discussed military strategy with Han Xin and realised Han Xin was a rare military talent. Liu Bang thus held a ceremony and appointed Han Xin as a senior general.

In May of 206 BC, the Han army won a major victory against Lord Zhang Han’s army. Lord Zhang Han’s army was based near the city of Hangzhou. The road there had been destroyed. Han Xin openly sent many soldiers to repair the road. Lord Zhang Han learnt about it and thus put his guards down thinking that the Han army wouldn’t be able to mount an attack until the road was repaired. In the mean time, Han Xin himself quietly led troops along an old back road near Nanzheng and came out of the town of Chen Cang. Lord Zhang Han’s army was totally surprised and was destroyed by the Han army. Because of the victory, Liu Bang was able to establish himself as one of the three rebel leaders.

In February of the second year of Hangaozu, Han Xin led his troop out of the pass of Hanguguan and marched towards the city of Luoyang. He won a series of victories. The Han army eventually conquered Peng, the capital of Chu, ruled by Xiang Yu. At the time, Xiang Yu was engaging a battle with the country of Qi. When he heard the fall of Peng, he led 30,000 highly trained cavalry to return to Peng during the night and defeated the Han army quickly. Han Xin regrouped the defeated troops and joined force with Liu Bang in Luoyang region. He used warfare tactics of blocks and strikes and defeated Chu’s army between Jiang County and Suoting, thus stopping Xiang Yu’s army from marching westward. Finally, the battlefront stabilised at Yingyang (in today’s Henan Province).

In August, Liu Bang appointed Han Xin as the Left Prime Minister. Han Xin led an army to attack the country of Wei. Wei’s Lord Bao put a large number of troops along the east bank of the Yellow River. In light of Wei’s troop strategy, Han Xin put a large number of ships at Linjin, just opposite side of the Yellow River, pretending he would attack by crossing the river by ships. Meanwhile he quietly had temporary equipment built for crossing the river using wooden frames tied together with ceramic vases. The troops crossed the river upstream at Xiayang and made a surprise attack at Anyi. With the unexpected emergence of Han’s troops behind Wei’s army, Han Xin defeated Wei’s army and captured Wei’s Lord Bao.

In September of the third year of Hangaozu, Han Xin led troops towards east to attack Eyu; he captured the acting Prime Minister Xia Chuo and recaptured the Dai county. At this time, Liu Bang ordered Han Xin to put his main forces quickly at Yinyang region to reinforce defending the region. Thus, Han Xin led only about ten thousand troops eastward to attack Zhao at Jingxing. Zhao’s Lord Xie and the commander-in-chief, Chen Yu, put two hundred thousand soldiers at the gateway of Jingxing in the Taixing Mountain region. Zhao army held the favourable terrain and prepared to make a decisive battle with Han Xin. Han Xin dispatched 2000 light cavalry overnight to outflank behind Zhao’s army main regiment. At daybreak, Han Xin lined up the main forces at the edge of the river bank, with river behind the troops and lured Zhao’s army to attack. Han’s army fought with the river behind them. Knowing they were without any way to retreat, everybody fought desperately. The 2000 cavalry used the opportunity to attack Zhao’s battalion. When Zhao’s army saw the red flags of Han army flying everywhere, they panicked and fell into total chaos. Han Xin used the favourable situation to counter attack and defeated the 200,000 people-strong Zhao’s troops. Han’s troops killed the commander Chen Yu and captured Zhao’s Lord Xie.

In November of the fourth year of Hangaozu (203 BC), Han Xin used the tactics of heavy troops to quickly attack Qi’s capital, Linzi. Chu’s general Long Qie led an army of 200,000 troops to the rescue and met the defeated Qi’s army at Gaomi (In today’s Shandong Province). They faced Han’s troops on the opposing side of the Huai River. Han Xin secretly dispatched troops overnight to block the river water upstream with more than ten thousand sand bags. At daybreak, he sent part of the troops to cross the Huai River to attack Chu’s troops and then withdrew pretending to be defeated. General Long Qie mistook it that Han’s army was timid and sent his main forces to cross the river to attack. Han Xin ordered his troops to open up the dam upstream and the water separated the Chu’s troops in two halves. He then used the strategy of “attacking the enemy in the middle of river crossing” and killed all the troops that had crossed the river. General Long Qie was also killed. The joined troops of Qi and Chu, which were on the other side of the river, collapsed without fighting. Han Xin took the opportunity and pursued the escaping troops and captured Qi’s Lord Tin Guang. He conquered Qi’s territory completely.

After Han Xin occupied Qi’s territory, Xiang Yu was in panic. He quickly sent people to persuade Han Xin to join him and fight against Han, promising giving him one third of the country. Han Xin refused. Han Xin’s adviser Quai Tong tried to persuade him: “General, haven’t you heard that it is dangerous when one’s courage and talent exceed one’s master and that too great a merit will not be rewarded? Your reputation now alarms your master and you have meritorious services. If you join Chu, they won’t trust you, and you return to Han, Han’s lord will fear you too. If you do not establish yourself as a lord in your own right, then where will be your home?” Han Xin quickly stopped him: “Speak no more. Han’s Lord treats me with great kindness and favour. He gave me his personal carriage to use. He gave me his clothes to wear. He gave me food to eat. Our forefathers had said: ‘When you ride another person’s carriage, you will share his worry; when you wear his clothes, you should also share his worry; and when you take his food, you should do your best for him.’ How can I see only my own self-interest and forget righteousness?”

He refused to turn against Liu Bang. But Qi’s territory had been just conquered and there was a need to establish a lord to govern the country and to pacify people’s minds. Han Xin thus wrote a letter to Liu Bang requesting to be the acting lord for Qi. At first, Liu Bang didn’t consent to the request. But after listening to the opinions of Zhang Liang and Chen Ping, Liu Bang made Han Xin the Lord of Qi and ordered him to attack Chu.

In December of the fifth year of Hangaozu (202 BC), Chu and Han faced each other in a decisive battle at Gaixie (today’s Binan, Anhui Province). Liu Bang appointed Han Xin as the commander-in-chief. Xiang Yu commanded 100,000 of Chu’s troops to attack fiercely at the Han front. Han Xin ordered the midsection of his troops to withdraw slightly and to avoid the vigorous drive of the Chu’s troops. He then spread both wings out to carry out flank attack and then ordered the midsection troops to push forward. The strategy completely surrounded Chu’s troops. At night, Han Xin ordered his troops to sing Chu’s hometown songs from all sides. Chu’s troops lost their fighting spirit and were annihilated at Haixia. Xiang Yu committed suicide on the bank of the Wu River. The five years of war between Chu and Han ended when Liu Bang conquered the country.

Starting as a lowly guard for Xiang Yu, Han Xin became general under Liu Bang and achieved outstanding victories repeatedly within just a few years. He was the major figure in deciding the outcome of the war between Han and Chu. Quai Tong praised this all-powerful military figure as: “A rare brilliant strategist.” His principle of manoeuvring troops was highly praised by the later military strategists. According to Han Yiwenxhi, Han Xin wrote three chapters of Hanxin Military Strategy. It’s a pity that the book has now been lost.

Han Xin’s ability made Liu Bang extremely uneasy. After defeating Xiang Yu, Liu Bang seized his military command and made him the Lord of Chu. Later, he was demoted to the Marquis of Huaiyin and was placed under house arrest later.

In the eleventh year of Hangaozu (196 BC), Empress Lu and Prime Minister Xiao He lured Han Xin to the Changle Palace and executed him on the excuse of conspiracy against the state. It is sad to see how a great general of his time was killed.


1:35 pm, May 09, 2006  





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